Disturbing at best…

misleading

I spend a lot of time reading blogs. Obviously I look for those that are written that apply to what I am trying to do in my life and that is to spread the ideas of learning and tolerance over willful ignorance and hate. I stumbled across a blog written the other day called, “Tolerance and Acceptance” and of course I clicked on it. What I read there was one of the most ignorant rants about homosexuality and it disturbed me to the point that I decided to try and engage the author with some reason and logical arguments. Normally, I don’t engage people on their Facebook pages or blogs. I figure it is their space and it is up to me to read it or not. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, and the fact that we are free to express our opinions I feel is our fundamental right.

I try to pose questions that allow for people to engage me whether or not they agree with what I write. I like hearing opinions that are different than mine – they help me to learn more and keep my mind open to new possibilities that I had not considered before. So when other bloggers pose questions – when I feel it is appropriate I respond. I don’t intentionally seek out people to argue with – and had she titled her blog appropriately I never would have even read her rant, but once it was read – I was disturbed and felt sort of obligated to try and shed some light and a different point of view for this author to look at. I am going to post the exchange here; I am however going to keep the bloggers name and site anonymous.

This was the original post:

Tolerance and Acceptance 

When are people going to realize that sexual preferences has NOTHING to do with equality? Quit comparing it to race, gender and disability discrimination. 

The masses are so confused and weak minded, the homosexuals and media have convinced you that homosexuals are missing out on some sort of “rights”. You call a promiscuous man or woman a whore and slut, crucify pedophiles and humiliate beastialists, yet it’s OKAY to have sex with the same gender??? What’s the difference?? They’re all sexual behaviors that disgust people. 

Why does everyone need to “accept” and “tolerate” homosexuality? Who decided that “anti”homosexuals are haters? Oh! That’s right, the homosexual SUPPORTERS. You see, it always goes that way. If opinions aren’t agreed with, you are a hater. Within 50 years, did a few who had a gay family member, or found out their favorite movie/rock star or politician was gay, suddenly decide homosexual acts were normal ? Is it because the thought of a despicable act performed by a loved one was too much to handle? Or the humiliation of your friends finding out, so you tried to convince yourself and your friends that it was “normal”, and in 30 years, the weakminded (obviously the majority of the population) decided to agree. 

Homosexuals can do whatever the hell they want behind closed doors or at their parades, but why is it now a social issue? And because it is, people are going to voice their opinions. They are NOT entitled to marriage, that’s reserved for a man and woman. God, I can’t believe the stupidity of our population and how easy it is to brainwash. We need worldwide cleansing of sheep and replace with the strong. 

The morals of homosexuality is as debatable as being Republican or Democrat. I happen to believe that homosexuality is a defect, NOT normal behavior. That does NOT make me a hater, I’m just using my own scientific logic to determine what is normal or abnormal. 

I DONT NEED to tolerate or accept what I don’t agree with. However, TOLERATE and ACCEPT our POINT OF VIEW. 

My view: Homosexual marriage is as wrong as giving illegals amnesty.

My Initial response:

Wow, your title sure was misleading. Here is the thing though – all throughout nature there are ‘defects’. Some of those defects end up being ‘norms’. When we talk about homosexuality – for the sake of argument; sure, you can say that this is some sort of biological defect – but we don’t deny rights to people born with other defects. We don’t legislate rules for those with defects to say that they can’t breed or have a relationship with another CONSENTING adult. 

I understand that due to your limited knowledge of the Bible and your personal beliefs that you feel gay sex is disgusting, but the simple fact is – you don’t have to engage in it or be present when other people do. 

The idea of tolerance and acceptance is not always about agreeing with others – it isn’t about adopting those ideas for yourself – it is merely to allow for people to live their lives with the same rights and freedoms you enjoy. God didn’t ask us to determine what is right or wrong in fact – he specifically directs us not to; that is His job- God asks us to love each other and to be a light in the world. 

I disagree with a lot of things that people do, but because God asked me to love them – that is what I try to do. Maybe you should try being a light in the world instead of judging those you don’t appreciate or understand.

Her reply:

What are a few examples of defects that became a norm? You may be right, but I can’t think of one off the top of my head. I assume you mean that any of these defects do not need medical intervention, a tweak of some sort, made an exception or require special accommodations to be presented as normal? 

I purposely left out any mention of God or religion, it adds additional controversy to an already controversial issue. 

Homosexual marriage has become a current civil rights issue. We forget that we are dealing with generations who were taught that being gay is wrong. I am one, and society is now attempting to ridicule homosexual naysayers. Perhaps you are right with allowing a union of homosexual couples, but you have to understand that not all will agree. 

You cannot say that tolerance and acceptance is a one way street. That ALL must accept homosexuality as a norm, because that would be hypocritical. I base my view on science, others on the Bible, others on feelings. Supporters base their views on feelings and a bleeding heart. Who is right and who is wrong? 

It seems that the bullies are homosexuals and supporters. I do NOT go around posting anti-homosexual material on Facebook, through casual conversation, etc., yet ridiculing “homo-phobes” is everywhere I turn. My blogs are written in response to friends who laugh at this, to nationwide news comdemning those who don’t support homosexuality. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t get my feelings hurt when I’m called a bigot, a hater, ignorant and what have you. Name calling will not force me to change my view. 

But, it sure does show the hypocrisy from the other side.

So I tried again:

I understand you may be feeling attacked by the media because right now it is a ‘hot button’ issue. It is right now because people are tired of being condemned and having their lives dictated by a group of people who believe or feel that being homosexual is a sin or is disgusting. We can’t deny other law abiding adults rights in this country based on feelings and because we feel something they may or may not do is ‘icky’. 

Things that have been viewed as defects that are now accepted in people- being left handed, having red hair, one eye that is a different color than another, down syndrome, infertile women… all of these people have been singled out at one time or another in history – even killed for it. That’s not counting racial differences that humans have used as an excuse to eradicate and discriminate against one another. 

Just because a group of people find something off or offensive does not mean we should legislate those feelings. As for the perceived attack on straight people – well it isn’t and the fact that you perceive it that way just says to me that you are on the wrong side. In order to effect change, people have to speak up and that is what is happening. There is absolutely no reason on this planet for you to be worried about homosexuals. They are going to affect your life as much as straight people effect mine – we just share this earth with each other and all pretty much want the same things. When you compare homosexuals with pedophiles and people who engage in bestiality – you are making an argument that doesn’t logically exist. Most pedophiles are straight men – and they often are happily married. Their sexual ‘partners’ are not consenting adults; they are CHILDREN and many times they are the children of the pedophile. Children cannot make a consenting choice to engage in sexual behaviors. As for people who engage in sex acts with animals – well a dog can’t consent either. So to compare the three groups as if they are somehow related is a very poorly constructed red herring argument. Homosexual couples are two consenting adults just like straight people. As for the sex – I don’t understand how women enjoy sex with men, however I don’t condemn them for doing it. 

I never said that tolerance and acceptance was a one way street – however you have to be on that road to be met in the middle. According to your post you aren’t even trying to be tolerant or accepting. Maybe if you were you wouldn’t feel so attacked or that the word homophobic applies directly to you. You were taught that being gay is wrong – that’s okay, we were also taught that Christopher Columbus discovered America – but we now know that European and some Island peoples were here first. Just because we were taught something as children doesn’t make it accurate. As times change, as we evolve, we learn. That is what distinguishes us from other animals. 

I know I may not change your heart or mind, but all I would ask is that you try to ask more questions, judge less, and be at least willing to re-learn and re-think your ideas. Tolerance and acceptance does go both ways – but often in this world sometimes one side has to travel further than the other to make that bridge. Again – homosexuals aren’t out to get you or ruin your life. They just want to have the same rights and freedoms you enjoy; and that is the right to marry the person they love and receive the same rights as any other CONSENTING adult couple in our country.

She had more to say:

Would you agree that it takes time, mainly generations, to phase out the stigma associated with homosexuals? I believe it does. 

Then why attempt to force change right here and now and break tradition that we have held valuable? Marriage, spouse clubs, etc. 

Everyone knows that the spouse clubs are for husbands and wives. Why would a lesbian decide to cause a stir by attempting to join, especially when she knows the Federal Government does not recognize same sex marriage? Would it not have been easier to start a separate club? 

We are back to Black History, Asian/Pacific Islander, and Hispanic pageants, months, channels and clubs. Caucasian tributes are racist and therefore unheard of. We can no longer have a group of Hetero’s because it’s “discriminating” towards Homo’s, yet we have events and tributes to Homo’s only. So, what about the “rights” of Hetero’s? What about letting what has been Hetero, stay Hetero? 

I have nothing personal against a homosexual, I just don’t agree with his/her sexual lifestyle. But, I don’t even make an issue of that… except when those who don’t support the homosexual agenda are attacked. It is not “perceived”, do not try to downplay the hate shown from the homosexuals and supporters side.

 And again, because same sex is with CONSENTING adults, it only makes it superior to alternative sexual preferences. It is in no way comparable to Hetero sex, capable for BOTH parties to produce a child. 

A homosexual is a person to me, the same as Joe Schmoe and Judy Patootie. I am in no way calling for the annihilation of homo’s. But, I do not believe the government needs to be involved with allowing benefits to them and their partners because of their differing sexual preference. 

That is only my opinion, and will remain my opinion until the day I die. I do foresee that the future will be good to homosexuals, something that will make all our grandparents turn in their graves.

That is where the conversation stands now. I am debating on replying to her again because I just can’t stand the fact that someone is so willing to live in a place of hate and intolerance. I do realize however that nothing I say will have any impact on her because she has closed her mind to any alternatives to her upbringing or her perceived notion that homosexuals and their supporters are attacking her. 

It makes me genuinely sad to have these kinds of conversations. It isn’t just about being gay or not, it applies to different races, gender, immigrants, political views etc. I will never understand people who are so unwilling to even consider another side of the story or a different opinion on something. Or people who can’t just seem to ‘live and let live’ especially when the choices of others have no effect on the dissenting persons life.

What do you think dear readers – Should I just leave it alone at this point? What would you say to her if anything? Do you think it is pointless to engage her further?

3 thoughts on “Disturbing at best…

  1. I think that you did a good job of engaging in a civil and reasonable discussion. The author you engaged was actually more civil than many who hold her views. While her logic was poor, she was less hateful toward you than I have often seen in these kinds of encounters.
    I’m a sucker for this kind of engagement, which usually leaves me frustrated. Some people seem to willingly cling to arguments that lack coherence. Whenever someone says, “No matter what, I’m going to believe X until the day I die,” that is a pretty strong sign that the individual is not teachable. I think you’ve planted a seed. Maybe down the road, the blogger will become more teachable and change her views. I think any further engagement by you at this point would be fruitless. At my advanced age, I am trying to learn when to stop “throwing pearls before swine.” That is, I’m learning when to stop arguing because I’ve made my point and the other side cannot or will not see it.
    In the meantime, I try to use these kinds of engagements to sharpen my own civility and reason, and to remind myself to remain teachable and open.

    • Joe thank you for your comment – and I too am a sucker for these conversations. It has taken me a long time to learn to temper my responses to try and approach the argument with logic rather than emotion. I also agree that she was less hateful than many other people have been on the issue and the fact that she was willing to even read what I said and respond to it shows that maybe someday she will let go of the fear and open her heart and mind.
      The more I think about it, the more I realize that continuing the conversation will only frustrate me but on the other hand – she is willing to discuss the issue and she has posed some questions to me that I feel might deserve a response. I don’t know…

  2. Pingback: Do not disturb! | K-Bunny

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